Frustrating

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition) 11/19/2018 at 10:20 • Filed to: Rant

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This is going to be a mild rant I think.

Our youngest daughter needs thousands of dollars in dental work thanks to cavities in her molars. As our current insurance stands, we’ll have to pay everything out of pocket.

So we started looking into different insurance. A Basic plan that covers nothing will cost us over $1000/month. A good plan that will actually cover the work is close to $2000/month.

Apparently this is what “affordable” healthcare looks like, either go bankrupt because your insurance covers nothing, or go bankrupt to have good insurance. Decent insurance will literally cost 1/2 our yearly income.

Then we try looking into Badgercare, nope, not eligible, I make too much money.

So now we’re not sure what we’re going to do, she needs the work done otherwise her adult teeth may be ruined, but we simply cannot afford it no matter how we look at it.

Interesting Gif for your time:

BTW, anyone know who this chic is?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:24

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That sucks man. My wife just was informed she needed some dental work too. Our dental isn’t covered by universal healthcare (that shocks some people down south).

I think I should get most of it covered, but I really empathize with you.

Ash78, voting early and often > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:27

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I don’t think I’ve had dental covered under medical in over a decade...most of the time they’re separate plans. And dental usually sucks. If you need work, you pay through the nose. Ironically, if you got seriously hurt, medical would cover the dental. And if it was a car accident, auto insurance would cover the dental work.

Sorry if I’m giving you any fraudtastic ideas. My big fancy employer dental plan is $50/month and pays for cleanings. That’s about it. Orthodontics? $1,000 lifetime max. My son already hit it, and he’s 8.

My advice would be to just start an HSA and start contributing what you can, then drag the payments out (interest free) as long as possible so you can match them up with your contributions. At least it’s all tax-free that way.

random001 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:29

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I can’t begin to describe how effed up the entire industry is, and i’m sorry that it’s affecting you like this.  I wish I had something to offer.  Guessing you’re not in the mind set to move to a job with better benefits right now.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:32

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This is terrible, is there a way you can take out a personal loan to cover it? Or work out a payment plan with the dental office?  

shop-teacher > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:35

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You’ll just have to make payments to the dentist. They’re used to dealing with that, because this is pretty much how it is for everybody.

Like Ash78 said, if you start a Health Savings Account, you can at least take the money out pre-tax and pay from that. Still sucks, but at least Uncle Sammy doesn’t take another cut off the top.

The whole system sucks, and needs to be burned to the ground.

66P1800inpieces > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:35

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Have you checked with other dentists?  I have had a bit of dental work done and there are good dentists that charge more reasonable rates.  Some Dental schools offer free or reduce cost.  

aquila121 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:36

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I sympathize. I found out earlier this month that the dental implant I’d been putting off would cost $5,600, and my dental insurance stiffs me on helping at all. Wish I could offer something helpful.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:37

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I’ve actually heard that if you pay in cash and skip insurance, dentists tend to be willing to “make a deal”. I don’t know why this is the case but for simple cavities and the like, they charge cash payers less than they charge insurance. Can’t hurt to explain the situation and ask?

Spanfeller is a twat > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 11/19/2018 at 10:40

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I think ours does... but IMSS is otherwise hilariously bad unless it’s something like highly specialized surgery (but the waittime is looong)

The Dummy Gummy > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:41

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Wow, why is dental so insane?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:41

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Your employer doesn’t offer insurance? That sucks.

You can get standalone  dental plans. Have you looked into thatm

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:41

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Yeah d ental insurance is pretty crap. Basically pays for itself but very little beyond . You might check around to see if there is a provider that cuts a discount for the uninsured or would let you do payments.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:42

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Nothing covers dental. Absolutely nothing.

You can thank the terrorist party for that ‘compromise.’

Dental has lifetime coverage limits. And there’s only one insurer - Delta Dental - and those limits are tied to your SSN. Not your policy.

You can thank the terrorist party for the legality of that.

You can also thank the curre nt regime for the skyrocketing rates.

If you want to claim otherwise, or if you voted for the terrorists ? Fuck you, I will kick you in the nuts so hard you don’t need a vasectomy, and then I will throw you into a fire.

Sincerely,
Someone With A “Pre-Existing Condition”

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:47

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Not sure where you live or if one is around you, but you might check local universities that have dental schools. When I was in college and my wife worked, she got braces done at the school for 1/4 of the price a dentist would have charged . I got my wisdom teeth yanked there as well (that was a fun spring break).

BJ > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:47

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I’m sorry to hear it. The HSA sounds like a good plan going forwards.

As for the current costs, I imagine that the dentist offers a payment plan or has an agreement with a local bank/credit union for this type of financing.

TorqueToYield > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:49

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Fly to Mexico and have it done there.

I’m only half- kidding.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/06/09/318212444/a-reason-to-smile-mexican-town-is-a-destination-for-dental-tourism

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:50

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Man, that’s rough. Medical/insurance expenses in our country are out of control. I have a medication I’m supposed to be on that I don’t get anymore because my insurance decided to stop working with the copay assistance program, so I’m supposed to pay out of pocket, then get reimbursed by the assistance. Problem is, they pull some tax fuckery and never reimburse the full amount and take for ever to reimburse me. Also I don’t have the money on hand to pay for the medication. Then to top it off, I found out the copay assistance company , specialty pharmacy, and drug manufacturer are all owned at least in some not insignificant part by the same company.

Chariotoflove > haveacarortwoorthree2 11/19/2018 at 10:53

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I work in such a school. The caveat is that you will have multiple appointments and get worked on by a dental student. But at the end of the day, the work will be signed off by  a faculty dentist. If it’s the only way to afford it, it will get the job done.

For Sweden > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:56

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Every government ever: we need more access to healthcare

Dentists: not so fast my friend

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 10:58

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Fly to Mexico and get it done for pennies on the dollar. Only half joking since this is actually a thing and it’s often cheaper even including travel.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > TorqueToYield 11/19/2018 at 11:00

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And then you hear stories like this one:

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/36-year-old-dallas-woman-in-coma-after-plastic-surgery-in-mexico/287-614253532

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 11:02

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I have 7 years old twins, and as luck would have it both will need braces. My wife’s policy includes orthodontia (up to $1500) and I just added ortho on my policy for the 1st of the year with the same max benefit . We ’re going to be paying $2000 or so out of pocket by the time this is done, and will end up making payments to the orthodontist.

Those little bastards better appreciate their straight teeth.

Maxima Speed > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 11/19/2018 at 11:04

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Yep. I had a root canal over the summer  and I didn’t have dental to pay for it. I payed cash and they gave me a small discount. Knocked it down to $800 all told for me. I got a free tooth brush too 

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 11:10

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This is why I am forever grateful for the NHS and the people that work within it.  Perhaps not a helpful comment, but I wish you luck.

WilliamsSW > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 11:10

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Ugh - that sucks. Also, dental insurance in general sucks.

Usually that’s separate from health insurance completely - I wouldn’t expect any dental policy to be that much $$, and I wouldn’t expect any health policy to cover the dental?  But yeah, so much for ‘affordable’ health insurance.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 11:10

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I have delta dental insurance, it’s a $1,000 or there about max per year with two check ups per person. The plan costs $90/month for a family of 4. This sounds like a shitty situation, I suggest grabbing your ankles and having a serious talk with your dentist about cash and running drugs.

Sovande > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 11/19/2018 at 11:19

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Which one is the terrorist party again?

fintail > Sovande 11/19/2018 at 11:29

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Probably the Randian pieces of crap who think any variety of single payer is some kind of evil “socialist” conspiracy.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Sovande 11/19/2018 at 11:40

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That would be the one that welcomes members who throw up ‘white power’ signs, regularly tweet about their support for Neo-Nazis, and sends mail bombs.

Quadradeuce > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 11:53

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As others have said, you need to start an FSA or HSA for dental. There’s really no other option, as most dental insurance either covers very little, or costs too much. That way you are at least using pretax dollars. Then negotiate a cash price with the dentist. This can be hit or miss. Also, there are payment plans, but these are 3rd party short term loans.

I would check out Dental Associates for a second opinion. They are generally more competitive because they literally do everything in house. It’s less of a personal experience , but for that kind of scratch who cares.  I’ve found them to be up to half the cost on some services compared to the tradition dental referral scene.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > haveacarortwoorthree2 11/19/2018 at 12:03

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That would be a great idea, except they’re planning on doing the work in Hospital and putting her under so they can do everything in one shot.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 11/19/2018 at 12:05

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Funny, it’s not the “terrorists” who got our healthcare so F-ed up, but somehow they’re being blamed.

That’s a debate I’d rather not get into currently as it does nothing to help my position nor state of mind ATM.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 11/19/2018 at 12:07

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We have insurance, with a 10k deductible before anything gets paid.....

We’ll look into stand alone dental, honestly did not know that was a thing as dental has always been tied to my health insurance.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > The Dummy Gummy 11/19/2018 at 12:07

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In this instance it’s because the work needs to be done in Hospital due to her age and how much work is being done.

In most cases, because who’s going to say otherwise?

The Dummy Gummy > TorqueToYield 11/19/2018 at 12:08

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Risk reward 100% not worth it.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 11/19/2018 at 12:10

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Unfortunately, $7k+ is the “cash price”. If our insurance covered it it would be over $9k......

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:10

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Carefree Dental is one of the big ones.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > 66P1800inpieces 11/19/2018 at 12:11

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Unfortunately there’s very few options around for kids her age.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 11/19/2018 at 12:12

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Possibly. Not sure about a $7k+ personal loan though...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > random001 11/19/2018 at 12:13

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Better benefits aren’t really an option anywhere around here. I’ve actually checked a few jobs lately, all of them have the same or worse coverage than I currently have.

random001 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:18

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Come to Dayton. We have cookies....

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:19

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Hot. Damn. I’m sorry bud that’s rough. I know that growing up when my parents had some large unexpected expenses they put it on a credit card and then cycled the debt around to another card  when the promotional 0% interest would wear off. Or something like that. I’m not a financial advisor though so this could be terrible advice. 

I wish I had more to offer but I haven’t had to adult like this before. I hope things work out!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > random001 11/19/2018 at 12:19

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I love cookies!

I would do a major relocation, but leaving all our friends/family doesn’t seem like something we want to do.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 11/19/2018 at 12:24

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I’d rather not pay interest on debt, with interest on top, although it seems that’s the norm for most people these days....

No offense.

random001 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:28

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I get that.  I had to move three states away to get a job when I was laid off.  Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, other times, it’s just not worth it. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:29

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Oh really. So you have evidence showing that forcing insurers to spend 80% of their revenue on actual medical care instead of the <40% they were spending caused prices to skyrocket? Or of any of the bullshit claims that   decades of completely fucked, unworkable, worse than third-world insurance system are entirely the fault of an attempt to fix it ?

Didn’t think so.

But remind me again which ones it was that fought tooth and nail and used every trick in the book and wasted over $500M of taxpayer money fighting for the right for your insurer to tell you to fuck off for any reason they felt like while charging you whatever they wanted?

And yes, our health care system in this country is objectively worse than ‘third world’ countries. In 2000 our system as a whole performed worse than Colombia, Dominica, and Costa Rica. Our infant mortality rate is worse than the big evil communists in Cuba. The only thing the US ranks ‘first’ in is spending: spending per capita, spending per incident, spending as a percentage of GDP, spending on administrative costs, spending on pharmaceuticals.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > random001 11/19/2018 at 12:30

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My job itself is great. Healthcare around here is the problem.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:37

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I don’t have any useful info, but I wanted to thank you for that gif. It is magnificent. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! 11/19/2018 at 12:39

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She is strangely attractive....

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:42

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Thankfully we’ve always had standalone dental coverage through my employer on top of regular health insurance. As others have stated, think it’s pretty routine for health insurance to have very, very basic dental coverage of any form. We’re fortunate to have really good health insurance options and even on all of those there is virtually no dental coverage. I’m sure there’s all kinds of political fuckery that led to that situation.

We have Delta for dental insurance – it has generally been good, but haven’t needed too many major procedures. I do know they do have caps on everything though and no such thing as an out of pocket maximum (probably plays in to fuckery mentioned above on splitting that out of standard insurance for more $$$). Anyway, they’re a major dental insurance provider might be worth looking in to. Obviously be careful if you do buy a plan to make sure they won’t deny coverage saying this was a pre-existing condition.

Sounds like a shitty stressful situation, I’m sorry to hear about it. Definitely look into academic institutions to see if they offer any low cost dental care options as others have mentioned.

facw > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:50

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Ouch, 10k deductible is pretty painful. Basically a catastrophic plan only.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:52

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You know what makes it even more fucked up? The US invests significantly more into healthcare per capita than the majority of developed countries (~$ 42 00 per capita) . Only Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Switzerland and the Netherlands invest more. The UK invests ~$3000 per capita in healthcare.

Yet, all of those apart from the US provide universal free healthcare.

So, you’re paying 33% more in tax for healthcare than I am, yet you also have to pay a not insignificant sum of money privately to ensure you have healthcare for your family. Meanwhile I’m fairly certain all young persons’ dental work is covered under the NHS.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:52

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You know what makes it even more fucked up? The US invests significantly more into healthcare per capita than the majority of developed countries (~$ 42 00 per capita) . Only Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Switzerland and the Netherlands invest more. The UK invests ~$3000 per capita in healthcare.

Yet, all of those apart from the US provide universal free healthcare.

So, you’re paying 33% more in tax for healthcare than I am, yet you also have to pay a not insignificant sum of money privately to ensure you have healthcare for your family. Meanwhile I’m fairly certain all young persons’ dental work is covered under the NHS.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 12:54

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I’ve had significant success with 0% money transfer credit cards. For a ~ 3% fee you can borrow reasonable amounts of money at 0% interest for anything between 24 and 31 months.

Not sure about your credit rating, but I wouldn't borrow any other way.

The Dummy Gummy > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 13:04

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I just meant the monthly rate at $1,000 and $2,000. I’ve never seen it more than a $150. That’s tough man. Sorry to hear.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > The Dummy Gummy 11/19/2018 at 14:22

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That’s a complete healthcare plan with dental included. We need to look into subsequent dental only policies and see what we come up with.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > facw 11/19/2018 at 14:23

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Basically the best anyone can get in this area without going bankrupt.

Cross your fingers and hope nothing happens....

arl > The Dummy Gummy 11/19/2018 at 16:01

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Why is any health stuff so insane? The longer I live the more I’m disgusted with America’s lack of ability to fix this.

I’m generally a pro small business, low taxes guy, but it’s fucking time to fix this mess.

I blame both sides of the isle and big business. Christ, is the little guy forever doomed to be fucked in this country when it comes to health care?

Party-vi > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 11/19/2018 at 16:48

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Hey now, let’s keep it nice.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 17:08

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One thing you may consider... get one or two competing quotes.  Not all dentists charge the same money.   And like mechanics, small independent ones can be cheaper than ones that work as part of a larger ‘dental group’.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 17:37

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“except they’re planning on doing the work in Hospital and putting her under so they can do everything in one shot. “

Putting her under just for regular cavities and fillings?  I would get a second opinion on that.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/19/2018 at 17:40

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“ The US invests significantly more into healthcare per capita than the majority of developed countries”

Not after you strip away the profiteering from insurance companies and medical corporations.

The Dummy Gummy > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/19/2018 at 18:52

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Oh, t hat’s not too bad then. I’d recommend starting an HSA and saving for events. The upside is with high deductible plans you can carry that savings to retirement.

The Dummy Gummy > arl 11/19/2018 at 18:55

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Not to get political, but b oth sides of the aisle? One side tried to fix it and was gimped by the other.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > The Dummy Gummy 11/20/2018 at 07:01

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Problem is that requires there be something to save.....

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 11/20/2018 at 07:05

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It’s because of her age. She needs 2 teeth pulled and 2 teeth capped. They could do them one at a time in office, but given her age and lack of ability to stay still, putting her under and doing everything at once is the more sensible route.

It’s also the cheaper route all said and done.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 11/20/2018 at 07:07

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Independents won’t touch her due to her age. They will do regular cleanings, but they refuse to do any more. They referred us to the Children’s Dental Center to have the work done.  

The Dummy Gummy > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/20/2018 at 08:02

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Balls, sorry man. 

duurtlang > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/21/2018 at 08:25

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How old is she? Old enough (18?) to study abroad? If so, motivate her to study in a civilized country with good but cheap universities and universal health care. Probably cheaper (and better for her development and resume) than having her stay in the US and having to pay those insane dental costs.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 11/21/2018 at 08:28

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The investment is purely amount of tax invested into healthcare by the government per capita . That definitely outstrips the majority of developed countries.

The profiteering comes into the inefficiencies afterwards. P art of why that colossal investment seems to provide sod all healthcare for the US populace.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > duurtlang 11/21/2018 at 10:06

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She’s 4......